The Bay Area Native

We had a chance to catch up with Chris McCaughan of The Lawrence Arms recently. He talks about his second Sundowner album, “We Chase The Waves”, and his love for Cormac McCarthy and literature.

What are some of the major themes explored on the new album?

A: I think the record is based in pretty universal themes but the major ones are love and death and self-actualization and atonement.  The record is kind of about coming to terms with who you are and the world you live in. I’ve heard a lot of people say it’s bleak and hopeless. I don’t really think that way about it. I think it’s more about the darkness you travel through towards pinholes of light. So overall I see it as a hopeful record.

What would you say some of the differences are between We Chase The Waves and Four One Five Two?

A: The major difference to me is that We Chase The Waves was written and made with the acoustic form more in mind. I wrote the songs for the record with a more focused idea and imagination of how the album would really sound and how the songs would fit and gel in the format.  We approached the construction of the record much differently this time around. 4152 was more meticulously laid out and recorded. Most parts were pre-arranged and written in advance, everything was played to a click track, etc.  So We Chase The Waves was more of a renegade production and I think that reflected the songs and in the end, really the whole process.  When 4152 came out there was some speculation that the songs were second rate or lost Lawrence Arms songs and that they all could have been electric punk songs. There may have been some slivers of truth to that, not that they were throw away songs but that they could have held up as punk rock tunes. I think the new collection is entirely comfortable in it’s own skin and I guess that’s the greatest difference.

How do you find time to balance Sundowner and The Lawrence Arms?

A:  Well, The Lawrence Arms haven’t been heavily active and I’m not doing full on touring for the Sundowner record so I got time. It took me three years to get out the second Sundowner record, and eight months to actually make it.  So right now it’s not too hard to do both.

What is your favorite track off the new album?

A:  I don’t really have a favorite track. I think every song leans on each other. I know some people just say that shit cuz it sounds writerly or artistic but I think it’s true. If I had to pick one I’d pick “What Beadie Said” which is loosely based on a scene from The Wire, but I couldn’t just pick one.  I’d also maybe have to pick  “In The Flicker” or even “Araby”. I’m attached to those songs too. I dunno.

Do you stick to a setlist or try to keep it changing and take requests?

A: I generally write a unique set for every show.  I haven’t done a lot of shows for the new record but typically I like to have a framework and when I’m playing solo I can take a detour at any moment and take requests or play things that I wouldn’t normally. When I toured through England with Mike Park I found myself playing songs I basically had no business pulling out, songs I could barely remember the lyrics to. It’s always time and place.

What are your thoughts on the way technology is changing the way people access music?

A: I dunno. It’s a different world than I grew up in. I can’t imagine being fifteen and having endless access to music and media or finding new artists by plugging stuff in to internet radio sites. We found bands by going to shows or word of mouth or going to the record store and blah blah blah. The first tours I ever did I was still calling home from a payphone and we actually read maps to find where we were going and we didn’t live in a world of 24 hour updates from every ding dong with a facebook app on their phone. Sound like the rants of a bitter old man? Yeah, well, my point is that you can either get with it and use it to your advantage or you can bury your head in the sand.

Any thoughts on the internet and how it is changing the music industry? The Arcade Fire topped the billboards recently. What do you think has caused this change in independent artists gaining more exposure?

A:  I have no idea. Look, I’m not an expert on the industry or how this is all works.  I know as much about this as I do about bird watching or econometrics. But it seems to me that kids, people, are more connected than ever before because of  “social networking” (Did you know there’s a boring movie about facebook now? Nice!) and the way people interact over the internet. Combine that with how few records even major artists sell and I guess someone like the Arcade Fire tops the charts. Really though, I have no idea. I don’t want anyone to think that I have any kind of expertise on this subject cuz I really don’t.  Maybe it’s a great record with awesome songs and it’s finally swimming through the big stream and everyone’s catching on. It seems to me Arcade Fire was a pretty successful outfit already. So they had a pretty good place to launch from. Good for them man. I think it’s a great story.

Going along with the last question, what are your thoughts on piracy and the way it can affect a musician like yourself?

A: You can’t stop piracy.  While it may well affect me in some way I think it’s ultimately pretty marginal. Fish gotta swim. Drunks gotta drink. Records gotta leak.  Paris Hilton gotsta get busted for cocaine possession in Vegas. Just the way of the world bro. You can either roll with it and adjust or you can stop making records and find something else to do.

What inspired you to write “In the Flicker”? (The opening lines remind me of Cormac McCarthy’s “The Road”)

A: The opening words to “In The Flicker” are loosely inspired by Cormac McCarthy. I’m a huge fan of his books and there’s more than one reference on the record to his work.  The song initially borrows his apocalyptic vision but morphs into a sort of desert dream old west death march, or something like that.  I guess I was trying to write a song that lived in a dusty lonesome western landscape. I certainly wouldn’t say the song is about “The Road”, or any McCarthy book for that matter, but I’d say it’s vaguely inspired by it. The title of the song is actually a reference to Joseph Conrad’s “Heart of Darkness”.  All this kind of stuff is totally inspiring to me but it doesn’t necessarily get to the heart of what the song is truly about. That’s open to interpretation and it probably reflects a lot of what I’d been thinking about at the time. To simplify: it’s a bit of a rogue song about finding your own way.

What inspires you to write your music? Literature, film, family?

A: Certainly all those things inspire me.  As you’ve kind of already seen literature plays a large part in my creative output.  I like fiction, stories, poems and words. There’s plenty of other stuff on the album that falls into that category.  Also, as I referenced earlier, “What Beadie Said” was initially a lyrical response to a scene from “The Wire”. So television/film is a hotspot as well although it’s not as dominant or directly referenced.  The places I’ve traveled, the people in my life all add to the landscape I write from. I think my lyrical output is a way of understanding and translating the world I live in.

How do you think your music has changed and evolved since you first started writing?

A: Honestly I try not to think about or consider that too much. I don’t know that it really gets me anywhere. Of course, my hope is that it continues to get better.  But other people will always be the judge of that and stack it up against what you’ve done before. I try not to write lyrics or songs to rewrite what I’ve done “successfully” on prior albums.  I think that would be a waste of time.  I try to do this so it’s fresh and compelling to me and hopefully, as a craft, my abilities have progressed and evolved.  I started writing lyrics and punk songs when I was 16.  I think I’ve followed my instincts as a songwriter and I like to believe that We Chase The Waves has a unique quality and new perspective from the work I’ve done before and that it’s a new and evolved place to land for the time being.

What advice would you give to anyone that wants to become a songwriter?

A: I don’t know that I’m the best person to ask or that I have a great answer.  I think you have to write lots of songs and keep working at it.  I don’t think writing great songs, or even just mediocre songs, is about being “inspired” although it certainly helps from time to time. I think it’s about always working at it, finding your own unique voice as a writer and trusting yourself to take risks and write some real garbage along the way.

How does the music making process usually start out for you?

A: I play some guitar. I jot down some lines that are sticking with me or some notes. I’ve got something crawling through my head. If I’ve got some writing I skim through it and then I let all of it percolate for a bit and then try to hit the ground running.  Usually back and forth, guitar, melody, words, and I start to cut and paste and piece together the puzzle. When I was writing We Chase I taped sheets of butcher paper to the walls and wrote lyrics and diagrams on them with a sharpie.

What are your thoughts on the pros and cons of being on a major label? What about the pros and cons about staying independent?

A: I’ve never been on a major so I have no idea.  It probably has some great perks, like maybe you get a foot rub while your tracking guitars or there’s a sushi bar in the studio. It probably has drawbacks as well.  Honestly I feel really fortunate to have anyone believe enough in the music to put out records I make.  Being on an indie has worked in this way for a long time.  It’s tough to just play music for a living in this day and age so I’m happy I get to share it in the way that I can.

Any last words?

A:“Poo-tee-weet?”